Hi Bengt,

I sounds like you are loosing encoder counts. I forget what type of system you have. I assume you have encoders? How is it wired?

Are they differential? Do you have Kanalog? Shielded?

If you move a large amount and come back to the same commanded position, but physically the position is different, then the encoder did not count correctly.

Turn off any Backlash compensation until you have any encoder problem resolved.

I doubt if the software/firmware version will make any difference with simply counting the encoder position. This is more likely a hardware problem.

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8199	From: ericncn	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

I 'll seize the opportunity to ask something I was wondering since long, hope it's not too unrelated to this topic:

if the encoder (or the glass scale, should be the same) has index ('Z'),

will KFLOP reset (or should I say re-sync) the count every time the index is encountered?

This way, the error should never accumulate even in very long runs...

--- In undefined, <dynomotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Bengt,

I sounds like you are loosing encoder counts. I forget what type of system you have. I assume you have encoders? How is it wired?

Are they differential? Do you have Kanalog? Shielded?

If you move a large amount and come back to the same commanded position, but physically the position is different, then the encoder did not count correctly.

Turn off any Backlash compensation until you have any encoder problem resolved.

I doubt if the software/firmware version will make any difference with simply counting the encoder position. This is more likely a hardware problem.

Regards

From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: [DynoMotion] Having position problems

Hi Tom,

I am still having problems mainly with my X-axis, tried to cut a circular pocket yesterday, diam 50mm 10.5mm Deep with 0.15 steps. Result is that at 9 o'clock I get steps sloping down in X+ direction.

In earlier thread on backlash I got following answer from you:
Set your Max Following Error to a small enough value to be sure your servo is accurate enough not to be the problem.
Also determine if the axis is drifting by going back to a known location before and after a test to see if the position repeats.

The problem is that I cannot repeat back to a known position every time.

Say I have X on 0 and G0X3 and back to 0 it sometimes gets Close and the creeps very slowly to what it thinks is 0. If G0X30 and back to 0 the 'new' 0 is quite a bit away from last 0.

The position cannot not be repeated accurately, ther might be some backlash but as I cannot get back to 0 I have problems in setting correct value on backlash.

It is as there is not enough 'power' to get the position as it depending on how far away X has been before and commanded back to 0.

Have been testing Backlash_Linear and some values but as I get no good repetability on known 0.

So what parameters do I have to work with, are these OK to edit directly in C file or do I have to compile?

Still on 4.28, is this OK or update to 4.30?

I hope you can bare with me so I can get this machine fully functional.

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8200	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Differential=Yes, Kanalog=Yes, Shielded=Yes.

Have tried without Backlash, diff in position depending on distance varies from 20-80µ but it is not always repeating to same position, varying figures show up. I am using Tesa probes with 300µ +- as max readout to verify my position, also have mechanical 1µ dials and both show same 'problems' with repeatable position.

Will open up the motor case tomorrow and check that encoder coupling is not slipping. The cabling is original and only extended from DSUB connector to Kanalog with shielded cable.

I have noticed that when axis is off or not returned correctly I can turn the ball screw by hand and then it gets stiff but can be off in position, is there any parameters to adjust as it seems a bit 'weak'?

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/5G4eUsYgZlgbuC-hY0Pee5SnLPnRzPlv1Tn9Y1Mr-BytGMP9c9EO8Bxfm3IaBE8TDxY5iBtnWJfrweGgSJJfbmm6MBUywGr4/Bengt%27s%20CombiMill/July%202013/combimill%203axis%20pwm%20V3.c

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> I sounds like you are loosing encoder counts. Â I forget what type of system you have. Â I assume you have encoders? Â How is it wired?
>
> Are they differential? Â Do you have Kanalog? Â Shielded?
>
> If you move a large amount and come back to the same commanded position, but physically the position is different, then the encoder did not count correctly.
>
> Turn off any Backlash compensation until you have any encoder problem resolved.
>
> I doubt if the software/firmware version will make any difference with simply counting the encoder position. Â This is more likely a hardware problem.
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:16 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
>
> I am still having problems mainly with my X-axis, tried to cut a circular pocket yesterday, diam 50mm 10.5mm Deep with 0.15 steps. Result is that at 9 o'clock I get steps sloping down in X+ direction.
>
> In earlier thread on backlash I got following answer from you:
> Set your Max Following Error to a small enough value to be sure your servo is accurate enough not to be the problem.
> Also determine if the axis is drifting by going back to a known location before and after a test to see if the position repeats.
>
> The problem is that I cannot repeat back to a known position every time.
>
> Say I have X on 0 and G0X3 and back to 0 it sometimes gets Close and the creeps very slowly to what it thinks is 0. If G0X30 and back to 0 the 'new' 0 is quite a bit away from last 0.
>
> The position cannot not be repeated accurately, ther might be some backlash but as I cannot get back to 0 I have problems in setting correct value on backlash.
>
> It is as there is not enough 'power' to get the position as it depending on how far away X has been before and commanded back to 0.
>
> Have been testing Backlash_Linear and some values but as I get no good repetability on known 0.
>
> So what parameters do I have to work with, are these OK to edit directly in C file or do I have to compile?
>
> Still on 4.28, is this OK or update to 4.30?
>
> I hope you can bare with me so I can get this machine fully functional.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8202	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi EC,

No KFLOP will not do this. I suppose you could write a c Program to do this, but you should not ever be losing counts. I don't think this would be an acceptable solution if you are.

A good test of the hardware is to move back to the position where the Index Pulse should be and verify it is really there - within a count or so.

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8203	From: ericncn	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi TK,

thank you for the clarification (and pardon me if I make beginner questions) but then, what's the purpose of the Z index?

EC

--- In undefined, <dynomotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi EC,

No KFLOP will not do this. I suppose you could write a c Program to do this, but you should not ever be losing counts. I don't think this would be an acceptable solution if you are.

A good test of the hardware is to move back to the position where the Index Pulse should be and verify it is really there - within a count or so.

Regards
TK

From: "ericnc@..." <ericnc@...>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [DynoMotion] Having position problems

I 'll seize the opportunity to ask something I was wondering since long, hope it's not too unrelated to this topic:

if the encoder (or the glass scale, should be the same) has index ('Z'),
will KFLOP reset (or should I say re-sync) the count every time the index is encountered?
This way, the error should never accumulate even in very long runs...

EC

--- In undefined, <dynomotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hi Bengt,

I sounds like you are loosing encoder counts. I forget what type of system you have. I assume you have encoders? How is it wired?

Are they differential? Do you have Kanalog? Shielded?

If you move a large amount and come back to the same commanded position, but physically the position is different, then the encoder did not count correctly.

Turn off any Backlash compensation until you have any encoder problem resolved.

I doubt if the software/firmware version will make any difference with simply counting the encoder position. This is more likely a hardware problem.

Regards
TK

From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: [DynoMotion] Having position problems

Hi Tom,

I am still having problems mainly with my X-axis, tried to cut a circular pocket yesterday, diam 50mm 10.5mm Deep with 0.15 steps. Result is that at 9 o'clock I get steps sloping down in X+ direction.

In earlier thread on backlash I got following answer from you:
Set your Max Following Error to a small enough value to be sure your servo is accurate enough not to be the problem.
Also determine if the axis is drifting by going back to a known location before and after a test to see if the position repeats.

The problem is that I cannot repeat back to a known position every time.

Say I have X on 0 and G0X3 and back to 0 it sometimes gets Close and the creeps very slowly to what it thinks is 0. If G0X30 and back to 0 the 'new' 0 is quite a bit away from last 0.

The position cannot not be repeated accurately, ther might be some backlash but as I cannot get back to 0 I have problems in setting correct value on backlash.

It is as there is not enough 'power' to get the position as it depending on how far away X has been before and commanded back to 0.

Have been testing Backlash_Linear and some values but as I get no good repetability on known 0.

So what parameters do I have to work with, are these OK to edit directly in C file or do I have to compile?

Still on 4.28, is this OK or update to 4.30?

I hope you can bare with me so I can get this machine fully functional.

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8205	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. But usually if the system is losing counts the position will continue to accumulate missing counts and the physical error will grow and grow to such a big amount that it could never be something mechanical like backlash or servo error. I suppose a slipping encoder coupling would behave the same way.

But if after many many moves back and forth the error never grows, but rather stays within a fixed range of say +/- 80 um, then it is not likely to be an encoder counting issue.

It could be either something like backlash or the servo tuning is such that it doesn't drive the error to zero. You can open KMotion.exe's Axis screen and see the Commanded Destination and the Actual Position. If there is a significant difference then the Servo is not working properly. If your Servo has any I Gain then the error should always eventually drive to zero.

Looks like Yahoo Groups is messed up right now as they might be upgrading things. I can't seem to get to the Files Section to look at your file.

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8206	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi EC,

No problem asking, we all have knowledge in different areas and like to learn more.

Usually the purpose of the Z index is to make homing more accurate. The Z Index pulse is usually more accurate than a home switch. But because the Index happens every revolution it cant be used exclusively for homing. You usually need both a switch and Index. The Home sequence first moves to the switch so which rev of the lead screw is known, and then the axis is reversed until the first index pulse is detected. There is an example function to home in this manner called:

SimpleHomeIndexFunction.c (and SimpleHomeIndexFunctionTest.c)

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8207	From: ericncn	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Ah, OK! Then here is another question (and last quesiton for today! :-) that I was wondering since long.

I have seen people who, at least in open loop stepper systems, buy very expensive (precise) home switches.

But then if I have encoders with Z index, I can buy relatively cheap/imprecise home switches, as the homing will be done on the Z index at the maximum precision possible for the machine.

Is this correct? Then I can save big money on the home switches? :-)

Thank you again
EC

--- In dynomotion@yahoogroups.com, <tk@...> wrote:

Hi EC,

No problem asking, we all have knowledge in different areas and like to learn more.

Usually the purpose of the Z index is to make homing more accurate. The Z Index pulse is usually more accurate than a home switch. But because the Index happens every revolution it cant be used exclusively for homing. You usually need both a switch and Index. The Home sequence first moves to the switch so which rev of the lead screw is known, and then the axis is reversed until the first index pulse is detected. There is an example function to home in this manner called:

SimpleHomeIndexFunction.c (and SimpleHomeIndexFunctionTest.c)

Regards
TK

From: "ericnc@..." <ericnc@...>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Re: [DynoMotion] Having position problems

Hi TK,

thank you for the clarification (and pardon me if I make beginner questions) but then, what's the purpose of the Z index?

EC
--- In undefined, <dynomotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi EC,

No KFLOP will not do this. I suppose you could write a c Program to do this, but you should not ever be losing counts. I don't think this would be an acceptable solution if you are.

A good test of the hardware is to move back to the position where the Index Pulse should be and verify it is really there - within a count or so.

Regards
TK

From: "ericnc@..." <ericnc@...>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [DynoMotion] Having position problems

I 'll seize the opportunity to ask something I was wondering since long, hope it's not too unrelated to this topic:

if the encoder (or the glass scale, should be the same) has index ('Z'),
will KFLOP reset (or should I say re-sync) the count every time the index is encountered?
This way, the error should never accumulate even in very long runs...

EC

--- In undefined, <dynomotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hi Bengt,

I sounds like you are loosing encoder counts. I forget what type of system you have. I assume you have encoders? How is it wired?

Are they differential? Do you have Kanalog? Shielded?

If you move a large amount and come back to the same commanded position, but physically the position is different, then the encoder did not count correctly.

Turn off any Backlash compensation until you have any encoder problem resolved.

I doubt if the software/firmware version will make any difference with simply counting the encoder position. This is more likely a hardware problem.

Regards
TK

From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: [DynoMotion] Having position problems

Hi Tom,

I am still having problems mainly with my X-axis, tried to cut a circular pocket yesterday, diam 50mm 10.5mm Deep with 0.15 steps. Result is that at 9 o'clock I get steps sloping down in X+ direction.

In earlier thread on backlash I got following answer from you:
Set your Max Following Error to a small enough value to be sure your servo is accurate enough not to be the problem.
Also determine if the axis is drifting by going back to a known location before and after a test to see if the position repeats.

The problem is that I cannot repeat back to a known position every time.

Say I have X on 0 and G0X3 and back to 0 it sometimes gets Close and the creeps very slowly to what it thinks is 0. If G0X30 and back to 0 the 'new' 0 is quite a bit away from last 0.

The position cannot not be repeated accurately, ther might be some backlash but as I cannot get back to 0 I have problems in setting correct value on backlash.

It is as there is not enough 'power' to get the position as it depending on how far away X has been before and commanded back to 0.

Have been testing Backlash_Linear and some values but as I get no good repetability on known 0.

So what parameters do I have to work with, are these OK to edit directly in C file or do I have to compile?

Still on 4.28, is this OK or update to 4.30?

I hope you can bare with me so I can get this machine fully functional.

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8208	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi EC,

Correct.

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8216	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

The encoder was really loose, have a look in my folder/encoder pics.

Also I discovered that my oil distribution was not OK, almost all oil did go to Z axis ball screw. Looks like somebody in its earlier Life has removed a part that slows down the oil flow to a specific point,
sorry but I do not know what it is called. So this is also a reason I got the milling bed to 'tack' or whatever it is called. Now I have solved these both problems so I can go for the next tests.

Have look at this youtube video, why is it that it takes so long to get to the correct position?

http://youtu.be/5hp4y35TKLc

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Â But usually if the system is losing counts the position will continue to accumulate missing counts and the physical error will grow and grow to such a big amount that it could never be something mechanical like backlash or servo error. Â I suppose a slipping encoder coupling would behave the same way.
>
> But if after many many moves back and forth the error never grows, but rather stays within a fixed range of say +/- 80 um, then it is not likely to be an encoder counting issue.
>
> It could be either something like backlash or the servo tuning is such that it doesn't drive the error to zero. Â You can open KMotion.exe's Axis screen and see the Commanded Destination and the Actual Position. Â If there is a significant difference then the Servo is not working properly. Â If your Servo has any I Gain then the error should always eventually drive to zero.
>
> Looks like Yahoo Groups is messed up right now as they might be upgrading things. Â I can't seem to get to the Files Section to look at your file.Â
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:45 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
>
> Differential=Yes, Kanalog=Yes, Shielded=Yes.
>
> Have tried without Backlash, diff in position depending on distance varies from 20-80Âµ but it is not always repeating to same position, varying figures show up. I am using Tesa probes with 300Âµ +- as max readout to verify my position, also have mechanical 1Âµ dials and both show same 'problems' with repeatable position.
>
> Will open up the motor case tomorrow and check that encoder coupling is not slipping. The cabling is original and only extended from DSUB connector to Kanalog with shielded cable.
>
> I have noticed that when axis is off or not returned correctly I can turn the ball screw by hand and then it gets stiff but can be off in position, is there any parameters to adjust as it seems a bit 'weak'?
>
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/5G4eUsYgZlgbuC-hY0Pee5SnLPnRzPlv1Tn9Y1Mr-BytGMP9c9EO8Bxfm3IaBE8TDxY5iBtnWJfrweGgSJJfbmm6MBUywGr4/Bengt%27s%20CombiMill/July%202013/combimill%203axis%20pwm%20V3.c
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > I sounds like you are loosing encoder counts. ÃÂ I forget what type of system you have. ÃÂ I assume you have encoders? ÃÂ How is it wired?
> >
> > Are they differential? ÃÂ Do you have Kanalog? ÃÂ Shielded?
> >
> > If you move a large amount and come back to the same commanded position, but physically the position is different, then the encoder did not count correctly.
> >
> > Turn off any Backlash compensation until you have any encoder problem resolved.
> >
> > I doubt if the software/firmware version will make any difference with simply counting the encoder position. ÃÂ This is more likely a hardware problem.
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:16 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Having position problems
> >
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I am still having problems mainly with my X-axis, tried to cut a circular pocket yesterday, diam 50mm 10.5mm Deep with 0.15 steps. Result is that at 9 o'clock I get steps sloping down in X+ direction.
> >
> > In earlier thread on backlash I got following answer from you:
> > Set your Max Following Error to a small enough value to be sure your servo is accurate enough not to be the problem.
> > Also determine if the axis is drifting by going back to a known location before and after a test to see if the position repeats.
> >
> > The problem is that I cannot repeat back to a known position every time.
> >
> > Say I have X on 0 and G0X3 and back to 0 it sometimes gets Close and the creeps very slowly to what it thinks is 0. If G0X30 and back to 0 the 'new' 0 is quite a bit away from last 0.
> >
> > The position cannot not be repeated accurately, ther might be some backlash but as I cannot get back to 0 I have problems in setting correct value on backlash.
> >
> > It is as there is not enough 'power' to get the position as it depending on how far away X has been before and commanded back to 0.
> >
> > Have been testing Backlash_Linear and some values but as I get no good repetability on known 0.
> >
> > So what parameters do I have to work with, are these OK to edit directly in C file or do I have to compile?
> >
> > Still on 4.28, is this OK or update to 4.30?
> >
> > I hope you can bare with me so I can get this machine fully functional.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8217	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,

The slow response is likely your servo tuning. Probably small I Gain. Rather then using Mach3 and watching the Axis Screen use the Move button on the KMotion Axis Screen and plot the performance. Also post your settings.

There seems to be a problem with Yahoo Groups where any File Folder with an apostrophe in the name can not be accessed. So no one can view your files (including me). Please make a new folder without any special characters.

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8220	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

There sure is something going on with Yahoo update, everything is a bit upside down. Have renamed my folders.

Will come back as regards tuning and settings.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> The slow response is likely your servo tuning.Â Probably small I Gain.Â Rather then using Mach3 and watching the Axis Screen use the Move button on the KMotion Axis Screen and plot the performance.Â Also post your settings.
>
> There seems to be a problem with Yahoo Groups where any File Folder with an apostrophe in the name can not be accessed.Â So no one can view your files (including me).Â Please make a new folder without any special characters.
>
> Regards
>
> TK
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:42 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
>
> The encoder was really loose, have a look in my folder/encoder pics.
>
> Also I discovered that my oil distribution was not OK, almost all oil did go to Z axis ball screw. Looks like somebody in its earlier Life has removed a part that slows down the oil flow to a specific point,
> sorry but I do not know what it is called. So this is also a reason I got the milling bed to 'tack' or whatever it is called. Now I have solved these both problems so I can go for the next tests.
>
> Have look at this youtube video, why is it that it takes so long to get to the correct position?
>
> http://youtu.be/5hp4y35TKLc
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. ÃÂ But usually if the system is losing counts the position will continue to accumulate missing counts and the physical error will grow and grow to such a big amount that it could never be something mechanical like backlash or servo error. ÃÂ I suppose a slipping encoder coupling would behave the same way.
> >
> > But if after many many moves back and forth the error never grows, but rather stays within a fixed range of say +/- 80 um, then it is not likely to be an encoder counting issue.
> >
> > It could be either something like backlash or the servo tuning is such that it doesn't drive the error to zero. ÃÂ You can open KMotion.exe's Axis screen and see the Commanded Destination and the Actual Position. ÃÂ If there is a significant difference then the Servo is not working properly. ÃÂ If your Servo has any I Gain then the error should always eventually drive to zero.
> >
> > Looks like Yahoo Groups is messed up right now as they might be upgrading things. ÃÂ I can't seem to get to the Files Section to look at your file.ÃÂ
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:45 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> >
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Differential=Yes, Kanalog=Yes, Shielded=Yes.
> >
> > Have tried without Backlash, diff in position depending on distance varies from 20-80ÃÂµ but it is not always repeating to same position, varying figures show up. I am using Tesa probes with 300ÃÂµ +- as max readout to verify my position, also have mechanical 1ÃÂµ dials and both show same 'problems' with repeatable position.
> >
> > Will open up the motor case tomorrow and check that encoder coupling is not slipping. The cabling is original and only extended from DSUB connector to Kanalog with shielded cable.
> >
> > I have noticed that when axis is off or not returned correctly I can turn the ball screw by hand and then it gets stiff but can be off in position, is there any parameters to adjust as it seems a bit 'weak'?
> >
> > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/5G4eUsYgZlgbuC-hY0Pee5SnLPnRzPlv1Tn9Y1Mr-BytGMP9c9EO8Bxfm3IaBE8TDxY5iBtnWJfrweGgSJJfbmm6MBUywGr4/Bengt%27s%20CombiMill/July%202013/combimill%203axis%20pwm%20V3.c
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bengt,
> > >
> > > I sounds like you are loosing encoder counts. ÃâÃÂ I forget what type of system you have. ÃâÃÂ I assume you have encoders? ÃâÃÂ How is it wired?
> > >
> > > Are they differential? ÃâÃÂ Do you have Kanalog? ÃâÃÂ Shielded?
> > >
> > > If you move a large amount and come back to the same commanded position, but physically the position is different, then the encoder did not count correctly.
> > >
> > > Turn off any Backlash compensation until you have any encoder problem resolved.
> > >
> > > I doubt if the software/firmware version will make any difference with simply counting the encoder position. ÃâÃÂ This is more likely a hardware problem.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:16 PM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Having position problems
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ÃâÃÂ
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > I am still having problems mainly with my X-axis, tried to cut a circular pocket yesterday, diam 50mm 10.5mm Deep with 0.15 steps. Result is that at 9 o'clock I get steps sloping down in X+ direction.
> > >
> > > In earlier thread on backlash I got following answer from you:
> > > Set your Max Following Error to a small enough value to be sure your servo is accurate enough not to be the problem.
> > > Also determine if the axis is drifting by going back to a known location before and after a test to see if the position repeats.
> > >
> > > The problem is that I cannot repeat back to a known position every time.
> > >
> > > Say I have X on 0 and G0X3 and back to 0 it sometimes gets Close and the creeps very slowly to what it thinks is 0. If G0X30 and back to 0 the 'new' 0 is quite a bit away from last 0.
> > >
> > > The position cannot not be repeated accurately, ther might be some backlash but as I cannot get back to 0 I have problems in setting correct value on backlash.
> > >
> > > It is as there is not enough 'power' to get the position as it depending on how far away X has been before and commanded back to 0.
> > >
> > > Have been testing Backlash_Linear and some values but as I get no good repetability on known 0.
> > >
> > > So what parameters do I have to work with, are these OK to edit directly in C file or do I have to compile?
> > >
> > > Still on 4.28, is this OK or update to 4.30?
> > >
> > > I hope you can bare with me so I can get this machine fully functional.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8224	From: Lee Studley	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Yep, Yahoo decided we all need to do things a new way as usual. Maybe
this will stave off Alzheimers
by constant changes. -Lee :-)

On 8/30/2013 1:38 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> There sure is something going on with Yahoo update, everything is a bit upside down. Have renamed my folders.
>
> Will come back as regards tuning and settings.
>
> Cheers
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8227	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Lee, Tom and Kflopers.

Yahoo has done it again, it's a PITA to get around into this old layout so one can reply to a thread as it cannot be done via the new layout!

Anyways, have been playing around with my settings all day long and have adjusted I parameters on each axis so now they are responsive and not slow as I previous YouTube video. I values where low like 0.0008 and are now set to 0.08 on X/Y and Z to 0.15

I am getting close to acceptable values, tested to cut 50mm circular pocket in 1.5mm steps and no staircase symptoms at 9 o'clock as before. Dimension in X-axis on this test was 50.25 and in Y 50.11 Z was within 1/100mm of set 10mm.
Did move part out of X0Y0 to measure hole size, did another cut from Z-10 down to -14, here one can feel a small step at 9 o'clock that is X has not moved to same X0 position. Maybe this is backlash, further tests will be done to find out what makes this.

Above with Backlash activated and no verification of machined tool diameter. Will do some more testing with verified machined hole plunged at X0Y0 to Z depth of 14mm with 12mm carbide end mill. Will do test of circular pocket with and without backlash activated.

Looks like I have got oiling to work as it should have done long time ago, can clearly see oil spill from the ways.

Hopefully I have more to write tomorrow.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
>
> Yep, Yahoo decided we all need to do things a new way as usual. Maybe
> this will stave off Alzheimers
> by constant changes. -Lee :-)
>
> On 8/30/2013 1:38 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > There sure is something going on with Yahoo update, everything is a bit upside down. Have renamed my folders.
> >
> > Will come back as regards tuning and settings.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8228	From: Lee Studley	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi, Bengt, Tom et al,
You probably all figured it out already, but the files section is under
"MORE" on the new pages.
Attachments are there too if enabled.
-Lee

On 8/31/2013 12:42 PM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
>
> Hi Lee, Tom and Kflopers.
>
> Yahoo has done it again, it's a PITA to get around into this old layout so one can reply to a thread as it cannot be done via the new layout!
>
> Anyways, have been playing around with my settings all day long and have adjusted I parameters on each axis so now they are responsive and not slow as I previous YouTube video. I values where low like 0.0008 and are now set to 0.08 on X/Y and Z to 0.15
>
> I am getting close to acceptable values, tested to cut 50mm circular pocket in 1.5mm steps and no staircase symptoms at 9 o'clock as before. Dimension in X-axis on this test was 50.25 and in Y 50.11 Z was within 1/100mm of set 10mm.
> Did move part out of X0Y0 to measure hole size, did another cut from Z-10 down to -14, here one can feel a small step at 9 o'clock that is X has not moved to same X0 position. Maybe this is backlash, further tests will be done to find out what makes this.
>
> Above with Backlash activated and no verification of machined tool diameter. Will do some more testing with verified machined hole plunged at X0Y0 to Z depth of 14mm with 12mm carbide end mill. Will do test of circular pocket with and without backlash activated.
>
> Looks like I have got oiling to work as it should have done long time ago, can clearly see oil spill from the ways.
>
> Hopefully I have more to write tomorrow.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
>> Yep, Yahoo decided we all need to do things a new way as usual. Maybe
>> this will stave off Alzheimers
>> by constant changes. -Lee :-)
>>
>> On 8/30/2013 1:38 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> There sure is something going on with Yahoo update, everything is a bit upside down. Have renamed my folders.
>>>
>>> Will come back as regards tuning and settings.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8232	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi folks,

Just uploaded 2 Pictures in my folder CombiMill Error1 and 2.

Start with the good news, have at last got the dimensional errors fixed, was looking at Y encoder to see if it also was out of order with bad shaft but it was OK. The trust bearing for Y was not OK and had some backlash so I opened - cleaned and re greased and now it is OK with backlash taken away mechanically. Decided to clean and re grease X axis trust bearing as well. This was the cure for getting correct dimensions in ONE cut.

Looking at the Pictures one can see that something is not OK as regards X but what it is I cannot get the grip over it.

The spindle head can only be rotated on Y axis so it can be set as horizontal spindle, that direction is trammed. There is no way to turn spindle in X direction.

Have to do some more testing to see if my knee is not parallel to the vertical as I cannot see if something else is wrong.

Looking forward to your comments.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Lee, Tom and Kflopers.
>
> Yahoo has done it again, it's a PITA to get around into this old layout so one can reply to a thread as it cannot be done via the new layout!
>
> Anyways, have been playing around with my settings all day long and have adjusted I parameters on each axis so now they are responsive and not slow as I previous YouTube video. I values where low like 0.0008 and are now set to 0.08 on X/Y and Z to 0.15
>
> I am getting close to acceptable values, tested to cut 50mm circular pocket in 1.5mm steps and no staircase symptoms at 9 o'clock as before. Dimension in X-axis on this test was 50.25 and in Y 50.11 Z was within 1/100mm of set 10mm.
> Did move part out of X0Y0 to measure hole size, did another cut from Z-10 down to -14, here one can feel a small step at 9 o'clock that is X has not moved to same X0 position. Maybe this is backlash, further tests will be done to find out what makes this.
>
> Above with Backlash activated and no verification of machined tool diameter. Will do some more testing with verified machined hole plunged at X0Y0 to Z depth of 14mm with 12mm carbide end mill. Will do test of circular pocket with and without backlash activated.
>
> Looks like I have got oiling to work as it should have done long time ago, can clearly see oil spill from the ways.
>
> Hopefully I have more to write tomorrow.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@> wrote:
> >
> > Yep, Yahoo decided we all need to do things a new way as usual. Maybe
> > this will stave off Alzheimers
> > by constant changes. -Lee :-)
> >
> > On 8/30/2013 1:38 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > There sure is something going on with Yahoo update, everything is a bit upside down. Have renamed my folders.
> > >
> > > Will come back as regards tuning and settings.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8241	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/3/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi again,

Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.

The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.

Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8242	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 9/3/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,

I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.

I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered. Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?

It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm". I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm. But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness? If straightness - straightness to what?

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8243	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/3/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.

Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.

Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.

As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
>
> I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.Â Â Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
>
> It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".Â I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.Â But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?Â If straightness - straightness to what?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi again,
>
> Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
>
> The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
>
> Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8245	From: bhurtss	Date: 9/3/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Put a precision pin or carbide blank in your spindle. Put the mag base of your indicater on the table. Place the tip of your indicater at the bottom front of the pin. Now jog down the length of the pin and note how much it moves. Then repeat this again on the right or left side of the pin. Do you show error like this?

Ben

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.
>
> Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.
>
> Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.
>
> As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
> >
> > I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.Â Â Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
> >
> > It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".Â I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.Â But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?Â If straightness - straightness to what?
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> > Hi again,
> >
> > Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
> >
> > The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
> >
> > Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8248	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Ben,

Done that with no errors

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bhurtss" <bhurtss@...> wrote:
>
> Put a precision pin or carbide blank in your spindle. Put the mag base of your indicater on the table. Place the tip of your indicater at the bottom front of the pin. Now jog down the length of the pin and note how much it moves. Then repeat this again on the right or left side of the pin. Do you show error like this?
>
> Ben
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.
> >
> > Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.
> >
> > Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.
> >
> > As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bengt,
> > >
> > > I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
> > >
> > > I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.Â Â Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
> > >
> > > It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".Â I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.Â But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?Â If straightness - straightness to what?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Â
> > > Hi again,
> > >
> > > Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
> > >
> > > The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
> > >
> > > Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8249	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Done some more milling tests today going from conventional to climb milling just to be on the clear wat is going on. Still having the same problem that is staircasing at 9 o´clock. The problem seems to be that X0/Y0 is moving towards X+. The test today gives approx 0.4mm towards X+ with a cut of a circular pocket with diameter 50mm Z steps at 2mm each down to 10mm pocket depth.

The cut size is correct in both X and Y and to my knowledge there is no backlash comp set. If not what can cause this kind of movements?

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> Done that with no errors
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bhurtss" <bhurtss@> wrote:
> >
> > Put a precision pin or carbide blank in your spindle. Put the mag base of your indicater on the table. Place the tip of your indicater at the bottom front of the pin. Now jog down the length of the pin and note how much it moves. Then repeat this again on the right or left side of the pin. Do you show error like this?
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.
> > >
> > > Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.
> > >
> > > Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.
> > >
> > > As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > >
> > > > I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
> > > >
> > > > I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.Â Â Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
> > > >
> > > > It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".Â I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.Â But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?Â If straightness - straightness to what?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > TK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Â
> > > > Hi again,
> > > >
> > > > Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
> > > >
> > > > The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
> > > >
> > > > Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bengt
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8250	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,

Is that 0.4mm per 2mm Z step? or 0.4mm for all 5 steps?

At what position do you start the circle?

Is there drift (loss of counts or encoder slippage) ? If you move to some x,y,z position before the cut and after the cut is the physical location the same?

Regards
TK

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8251	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Total 0.4mm for all 5 steps.
Mach Wizard Circular Pocket starts at X0Y0
The encoder was loose on X Before but now fixed (I hope I did not screw that one up).
Will have to test movements before and after.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> Is that 0.4mm per 2mm Z step?Â or 0.4mm for all 5 steps?
>
> At what position do you start the circle?
>
> Is there drift (loss of counts or encoder slippage) ?Â If you move to some x,y,z position before the cut and after the cut is the physical location the same?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:45 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
>
> Done some more milling tests today going from conventional to climb milling just to be on the clear wat is going on. Still having the same problem that is staircasing at 9 oÂ´clock. The problem seems to be that X0/Y0 is moving towards X+. The test today gives approx 0.4mm towards X+ with a cut of a circular pocket with diameter 50mm Z steps at 2mm each down to 10mm pocket depth.
>
> The cut size is correct in both X and Y and to my knowledge there is no backlash comp set. If not what can cause this kind of movements?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > Done that with no errors
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bhurtss" <bhurtss@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Put a precision pin or carbide blank in your spindle. Put the mag base of your indicater on the table. Place the tip of your indicater at the bottom front of the pin. Now jog down the length of the pin and note how much it moves. Then repeat this again on the right or left side of the pin. Do you show error like this?
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Tom,
> > > >
> > > > Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.
> > > >
> > > > Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.
> > > >
> > > > Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.
> > > >
> > > > As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bengt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.ÃÂ ÃÂ Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
> > > > >
> > > > > It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".ÃÂ I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.ÃÂ But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?ÃÂ If straightness - straightness to what?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > TK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÂ
> > > > > Hi again,
> > > > >
> > > > > Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8252	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,

Pocket starts at 0,0 - where is the center of the circle?

Regards
TK

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8253	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

0,0

Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> Pocket starts at 0,0 - where is the center of the circle?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:21 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
>
> Total 0.4mm for all 5 steps.
> Mach Wizard Circular Pocket starts at X0Y0
> The encoder was loose on X Before but now fixed (I hope I did not screw that one up).
> Will have to test movements before and after.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > Is that 0.4mm per 2mm Z step?ÃÂ or 0.4mm for all 5 steps?
> >
> > At what position do you start the circle?
> >
> > Is there drift (loss of counts or encoder slippage) ?ÃÂ If you move to some x,y,z position before the cut and after the cut is the physical location the same?
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:45 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> >
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Done some more milling tests today going from conventional to climb milling just to be on the clear wat is going on. Still having the same problem that is staircasing at 9 oÃÂ´clock. The problem seems to be that X0/Y0 is moving towards X+. The test today gives approx 0.4mm towards X+ with a cut of a circular pocket with diameter 50mm Z steps at 2mm each down to 10mm pocket depth.
> >
> > The cut size is correct in both X and Y and to my knowledge there is no backlash comp set. If not what can cause this kind of movements?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ben,
> > >
> > > Done that with no errors
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bhurtss" <bhurtss@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Put a precision pin or carbide blank in your spindle. Put the mag base of your indicater on the table. Place the tip of your indicater at the bottom front of the pin. Now jog down the length of the pin and note how much it moves. Then repeat this again on the right or left side of the pin. Do you show error like this?
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > > Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.
> > > > >
> > > > > Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.
> > > > >
> > > > > Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.
> > > > >
> > > > > As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.ÃâÃÂ ÃâÃÂ Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".ÃâÃÂ I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.ÃâÃÂ But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?ÃâÃÂ If straightness - straightness to what?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > TK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃâÃÂ
> > > > > > Hi again,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > Bengt
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8254	From: TK	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Oh so it spirals out? Then finishes with one full circle? Where does it end?

Regards
TK

On Sep 4, 2013, at 8:29 AM, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:

Hi Tom,

0,0

Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> Pocket starts at 0,0 - where is the center of the circle?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:21 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Total 0.4mm for all 5 steps.
> Mach Wizard Circular Pocket starts at X0Y0
> The encoder was loose on X Before but now fixed (I hope I did not screw that one up).
> Will have to test movements before and after.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > Is that 0.4mm per 2mm Z step?Â or 0.4mm for all 5 steps?
> >
> > At what position do you start the circle?
> >
> > Is there drift (loss of counts or encoder slippage) ?Â If you move to some x,y,z position before the cut and after the cut is the physical location the same?
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:45 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Done some more milling tests today going from conventional to climb milling just to be on the clear wat is going on. Still having the same problem that is staircasing at 9 oÂ´clock. The problem seems to be that X0/Y0 is moving towards X+. The test today gives approx 0.4mm towards X+ with a cut of a circular pocket with diameter 50mm Z steps at 2mm each down to 10mm pocket depth.
> >
> > The cut size is correct in both X and Y and to my knowledge there is no backlash comp set. If not what can cause this kind of movements?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ben,
> > >
> > > Done that with no errors
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bhurtss" <bhurtss@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Put a precision pin or carbide blank in your spindle. Put the mag base of your indicater on the table. Place the tip of your indicater at the bottom front of the pin. Now jog down the length of the pin and note how much it moves. Then repeat this again on the right or left side of the pin. Do you show error like this?
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > > Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.
> > > > >
> > > > > Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.
> > > > >
> > > > > Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.
> > > > >
> > > > > As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".Ã‚Â I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.Ã‚Â But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?Ã‚Â If straightness - straightness to what?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > TK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ã‚Â
> > > > > > Hi again,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > Bengt
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8255	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Yes it spirals out and ramps out at 3 o´clock

Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, TK <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Oh so it spirals out? Then finishes with one full circle? Where does it end?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
> On Sep 4, 2013, at 8:29 AM, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > 0,0
> >
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bengt,
> > >
> > > Pocket starts at 0,0 - where is the center of the circle?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:21 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > Total 0.4mm for all 5 steps.
> > > Mach Wizard Circular Pocket starts at X0Y0
> > > The encoder was loose on X Before but now fixed (I hope I did not screw that one up).
> > > Will have to test movements before and after.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > >
> > > > Is that 0.4mm per 2mm Z step?Ã or 0.4mm for all 5 steps?
> > > >
> > > > At what position do you start the circle?
> > > >
> > > > Is there drift (loss of counts or encoder slippage) ?Ã If you move to some x,y,z position before the cut and after the cut is the physical location the same?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > TK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:45 AM
> > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ã
> > > > Hi Tom,
> > > >
> > > > Done some more milling tests today going from conventional to climb milling just to be on the clear wat is going on. Still having the same problem that is staircasing at 9 oÃÂ´clock. The problem seems to be that X0/Y0 is moving towards X+. The test today gives approx 0.4mm towards X+ with a cut of a circular pocket with diameter 50mm Z steps at 2mm each down to 10mm pocket depth.
> > > >
> > > > The cut size is correct in both X and Y and to my knowledge there is no backlash comp set. If not what can cause this kind of movements?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bengt
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Ben,
> > > > >
> > > > > Done that with no errors
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bhurtss" <bhurtss@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Put a precision pin or carbide blank in your spindle. Put the mag base of your indicater on the table. Place the tip of your indicater at the bottom front of the pin. Now jog down the length of the pin and note how much it moves. Then repeat this again on the right or left side of the pin. Do you show error like this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ben
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Straightness, Picture uploaded DSC_0958.jpg showing the setup.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Spindle not parallel, well yes but it could be either the knee in my machine as it is the only Z moving part or the spindle. Have no possibility to verify radial load errors on my spindle other than make new tests and only do climb cutting, axial cut's however look OK.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Will verify that the machine is level and standing firm as this could cause problems if not OK, but it is not so long ago this was tested.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As you can see I am grasping for ideas of what can be wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > Bengt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I didn't really understand what the pictures were supposed to be showing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm guessing that there is still some sort of shift of the tool in X (but not Y) when the Z is raised and lowered.ÃâÃ ÃâÃ Wouldn't that indicate the tool spindle axis is not parallel to the Z motion?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It isn't clear what you mean by: "The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm".ÃâÃ I think you are saying the Z axis is within a few microns over 300mm.ÃâÃ But are you talking about servo following error or something like straightness?ÃâÃ If straightness - straightness to what?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > TK
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:13 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ÃâÃ
> > > > > > > > Hi again,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Have now spent a few Days measuring my milling machine and sorry to say I cannot find anything mechanical that could be the reason of getting this staircase phenomena cutting circular pockets.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Z axis runs within a few/1000mm at a distance of 300mm and the milling table is within 30/1000mm flat, old and bad handled by previous users (School), trammed the head once again and it is running fairly good, only thing I cannot measure is the runout under radial load and axial load machining shows no problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is there some parameters in my settings that could cause this problem?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > > Bengt
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8256	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Obviously I have been away from how to do things with kflop. Just remembered that one can upload what's compiled and there I think was the problem with old C file from way back with PID values that where off.

Question, I have a Kmotion library under Mach3 where I keep all my C files, are these files overriding whatever is compiled in Kflop or is it the compiled that is master at all times? So what ever I change in the C file in that library does not get into action?

Will have to do some testing tomorrow daytime here and see if there is a difference from what I did today.

I spend too little time with my milling machine so I tend to forget from time to time what is what, it's a pain to get old as memory is not what it has been ;)

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8258	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,

It doesn't really matter where the C program is located. When you push the RESETbutton in Mach3 whatever C file is configured in the Mach3/Dynomotion Plugin will be compiled/downloaded/executed in KFLOP to set all the parameters.

HTH

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8260	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

OK got the message. Back to Square one as I cannot figure out what is causing this error, do you think this can be backlash or can the ballscrew be worn/worn out? If backlash how much can it be?

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> It doesn't really matter where the C program is located. Â When you push the RESETbutton in Mach3 whatever C file is configured in the Mach3/Dynomotion Plugin will be compiled/downloaded/executed in KFLOP to set all the parameters.
>
> HTH
> Regards
> TK
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:50 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
>
> Obviously I have been away from how to do things with kflop. Just remembered that one can upload what's compiled and there I think was the problem with old C file from way back with PID values that where off.
>
> Question, I have a Kmotion library under Mach3 where I keep all my C files, are these files overriding whatever is compiled in Kflop or is it the compiled that is master at all times? So what ever I change in the C file in that library does not get into action?
>
> Will have to do some testing tomorrow daytime here and see if there is a difference from what I did today.
>
> I spend too little time with my milling machine so I tend to forget from time to time what is what, it's a pain to get old as memory is not what it has been ;)
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8263	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,

I did not mean to indicate that you might not be using the wrong parameters. If Mach3 is configured to use the wrong file then the parameters would be wrong. So please verify this.

I would do the drift test first.

#1 move somewhere and mark the position

#2 run the pocket Job

#3 move back to the coordinates of step 1

#4 check if the xy location is physically the same.

Regards

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8268	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Done requested test, new Pictures 961 and 963.

Procedure done like this

Zeroed XY
MDI to X-30Y30
Plunged down to -5
Started Mach wizard G code
MDI back to X-30Y30
G1 Z-2F50

The result shows in pictures that there is something wrong with the encoder, will open the assembly and have a look to see if I made the repair wrong as it was previously loose.

Good thing is if something wrong with encoder it is made very close to where I live only 30 minute drive so I should be able to get help.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> I did not mean to indicate that you might not be using the wrong parameters. If Mach3 is configured to use the wrong file then the parameters would be wrong. Â So please verify this.
>
> I would do the drift test first.
>
> #1 move somewhere and mark the position
> #2 run the pocket Job
> #3 move back to the coordinates of step 1
> #4 check if the xy location is physically the same.
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:12 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
>
>
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
>
> OK got the message. Back to Square one as I cannot figure out what is causing this error, do you think this can be backlash or can the ballscrew be worn/worn out? If backlash how much can it be?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > It doesn't really matter where the C program is located. ÃÂ When you push the RESETbutton in Mach3 whatever C file is configured in the Mach3/Dynomotion Plugin will be compiled/downloaded/executed in KFLOP to set all the parameters.
> >
> > HTH
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:50 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Having position problems
> >
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Obviously I have been away from how to do things with kflop. Just remembered that one can upload what's compiled and there I think was the problem with old C file from way back with PID values that where off.
> >
> > Question, I have a Kmotion library under Mach3 where I keep all my C files, are these files overriding whatever is compiled in Kflop or is it the compiled that is master at all times? So what ever I change in the C file in that library does not get into action?
> >
> > Will have to do some testing tomorrow daytime here and see if there is a difference from what I did today.
> >
> > I spend too little time with my milling machine so I tend to forget from time to time what is what, it's a pain to get old as memory is not what it has been ;)
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8269	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Done some more testing and uploaded Picture 964 (Drive error1)

In Picture the hole at left clearly shows the staircase problem with X0Y0 moving towards X+

Did run 100x X10 X0 and after each plunge down 2mm above last.
Was going to run another 100 when suddenly X axis stopped = the driver did switch off due to too high current, wtf....

So I decided to turn down my max federate from 1500mm to 1000mm and the hole at right shows the result.

As I see this is that original drivers did manage to output higher current with same 117VDC PSU and the new driver is capable to run at max 160VDC with 18A cont. and 40A peak.

Will try to do some more testing to see if I can get everything spot on. As it is now there is a small amount of staircasing going in X- direction, so one wonders what is causing this, any ideas?

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8270	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

There is something else going wrong now with X-axis as the driver faults out. Either encoder failure or bad tuning of the VSD-XE driver.

I might have caused some damage to the encoder cable during repair and the control I did. Will investigate further.

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8271	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Bad connection on the dsub on encoder.

Cheers
Bengt

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8274	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Tom,

Obviously I did not clean connector pins good enough, now machine has been running code for almost 2 hours with no hiccup's. Will continue testing and see if I can go back to higher speed again.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> There is something else going wrong now with X-axis as the driver faults out. Either encoder failure or bad tuning of the VSD-XE driver.
>
> I might have caused some damage to the encoder cable during repair and the control I did. Will investigate further.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8275	From: Lee Studley	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Bengt,
Don't feel bad, I had a guy with a small emco CNC lathe give me a
complex discrete multiple
stepper driver board and I went through every transistor on it, since
that design was very like an
audio bridge driver.

Could find nothing wrong so I told him it was fine, but the guy insisted
it was bad.
So I made him bring the entire lathe and after going over it we found
metal shavings
at the stepper connection terminals. It happens :-)
-Lee

On 9/5/2013 11:02 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> Bad connection on the dsub on encoder.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8281	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Lee & Co

Did some testing today and X axis was still behaving bad! So I decided to shift motor/encoder from X with same setup from Y.

Now it runs without any hiccup's, have even tested to 3000mm on X/Y and no problems at all as regards do what is commanded. Have run several hundred x10 x0 as well as x10y10 x0y0 and x10y10z10 x0y0z0
and no problems. Only if I try to get Z axis to move >2000mm the driver faults out with Overcurrent indication on LED's.

Will continue tomorrow and see if I get correct movements as well.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
> Don't feel bad, I had a guy with a small emco CNC lathe give me a
> complex discrete multiple
> stepper driver board and I went through every transistor on it, since
> that design was very like an
> audio bridge driver.
>
> Could find nothing wrong so I told him it was fine, but the guy insisted
> it was bad.
> So I made him bring the entire lathe and after going over it we found
> metal shavings
> at the stepper connection terminals. It happens :-)
> -Lee
>
>
> On 9/5/2013 11:02 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Bad connection on the dsub on encoder.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8287	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi folks,

Have been running several stress tests today and sorry to say but now I have a dead GD VSD-XE driver that gave up on Z axis.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Lee & Co
>
> Did some testing today and X axis was still behaving bad! So I decided to shift motor/encoder from X with same setup from Y.
>
> Now it runs without any hiccup's, have even tested to 3000mm on X/Y and no problems at all as regards do what is commanded. Have run several hundred x10 x0 as well as x10y10 x0y0 and x10y10z10 x0y0z0
> and no problems. Only if I try to get Z axis to move >2000mm the driver faults out with Overcurrent indication on LED's.
>
> Will continue tomorrow and see if I get correct movements as well.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> > Don't feel bad, I had a guy with a small emco CNC lathe give me a
> > complex discrete multiple
> > stepper driver board and I went through every transistor on it, since
> > that design was very like an
> > audio bridge driver.
> >
> > Could find nothing wrong so I told him it was fine, but the guy insisted
> > it was bad.
> > So I made him bring the entire lathe and after going over it we found
> > metal shavings
> > at the stepper connection terminals. It happens :-)
> > -Lee
> >
> >
> > On 9/5/2013 11:02 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > Bad connection on the dsub on encoder.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8288	From: Lee Studley	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

HI Ben,
Not sure of your location, but

1)I think they would repair it reasonably,
2) Or If you want to send it to Phoenix AZ, I could repair it and send
it back.
3) Or if you are just going gto replace it, I'll buy the carcass off you
to dissect.

-Lee

On 9/8/2013 11:17 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Have been running several stress tests today and sorry to say but now I have a dead GD VSD-XE driver that gave up on Z axis.
>
> Cheers
> Ben

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8291	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

Hi Lee,

Located in Sweden, next to Finland where Granite Devices are located.
Expecting to get warranty exchange on this driver, if not will do repair in house.
Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
>
> HI Ben,
> Not sure of your location, but
>
> 1)I think they would repair it reasonably,
> 2) Or If you want to send it to Phoenix AZ, I could repair it and send
> it back.
> 3) Or if you are just going gto replace it, I'll buy the carcass off you
> to dissect.
>
> -Lee
>
>
> On 9/8/2013 11:17 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Have been running several stress tests today and sorry to say but now I have a dead GD VSD-XE driver that gave up on Z axis.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Ben
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8292	From: Lee Studley	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems

HI Bengt,
That's the best move. If you do fix it yourself, please take a picture
of under the hood.
I like to see how others go about design.
-Lee

On 9/8/2013 10:55 PM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> Hi Lee,
>
> Located in Sweden, next to Finland where Granite Devices are located.
> Expecting to get warranty exchange on this driver, if not will do repair in house.
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
>> HI Ben,
>> Not sure of your location, but
>>
>> 1)I think they would repair it reasonably,
>> 2) Or If you want to send it to Phoenix AZ, I could repair it and send
>> it back.
>> 3) Or if you are just going gto replace it, I'll buy the carcass off you
>> to dissect.
>>
>> -Lee
>>
>>
>> On 9/8/2013 11:17 AM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> Have been running several stress tests today and sorry to say but now I have a dead GD VSD-XE driver that gave up on Z axis.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Ben
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8194	From: Bengt Sjoelund	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Having position problems

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 8197	From: Tom Kerekes	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Having position problems